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Phoenix
4/13/2010 1:10:09 PM | Gang,
I've had a request for information regarding a member, we think of the 614th, a one Charles F (or it could be E) Allen. No great details required just his job within the aircrew and that sort of thing, well anything really I suppose.
Ta
Dale
improvise, adapt, overcome
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donaldbyers
4/13/2010 2:31:35 PM | Well on the search he is not in the database. So here are the questions:
1. Is he for sure with the 401st Bomb Group.
2. Could he be 401st Bomb Squadron related.
3. Do we know a time period he was at Deenethorpe.
I can go in and check but have to look at every loading list during the time period if we can come up with that info.
I'll be glad to do it.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Phoenix
4/13/2010 2:43:23 PM | Don,
The chap asking the question has a letter from him telling of his time with the 401st and of being a POW and being on the 'long march' but bless him he can't remember or find out what Charles Allen did while with the 401st. A real sticky one, and not the last I'm sure.
Cheers
Dale
improvise, adapt, overcome
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Paul Bellamy
4/13/2010 3:08:02 PM | I've checked the US PoW list from NARA for any Charles Allens.
There are 8 files, 6 from the ETO but some of those were captured before the 401st began operations or were Infantry.
That leaves:
S/Sgt Charles F Allen. Captured 6/3/44, held at Stalag Luft 4. 100th Bomb Group.
1 Lt Charles R Allen. Captured 21/6/44, held at Stalag 7A. 303rd Bomb Group.
2 Lt Charles M Allen. Captured 29/7/44, held at Stalag Luft 1. Unit not known.
The only 401BG Allen listed was S/Sgt Robert E Allen, captured 11/1/44.
All the best,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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donaldbyers
4/13/2010 5:29:28 PM | Thanks Paul,
Dale, we will give a look at the 614th BS to start and see if I can find him. From there I will try other squadrons if required. There are 19 MACR reports for the 614th so can start with them.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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donaldbyers
4/13/2010 7:01:02 PM | Info on Charles E. Allen passed, from the 2005 BG Directory. Still looking for additional info.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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win-win
4/14/2010 10:09:22 AM | Gents:
FYI The 1947 401st Directory lists a Charles E. Allen from (then) South Bend, Ind.
Win
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ron_R
4/14/2010 10:58:10 AM | i fond Robert E Allen as an RO on the B-17 42-39893 401 BG 615 BS
shot dowen by fighters on the returnflight and crashed about 10 miles south of the target
fire in bombbay and nr 4
the RWG and TG were killed
MARC 2505
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Phoenix
4/15/2010 1:18:50 PM | Guys,
Many thanks for all your help and information which I shall pass on to the gentleman concerned. However having read the letter in his possession for myself last night I have a feeling that confusion has set in and the Allen he is after is from the 100th BG ❗ Whatever, I will let you know how it turns out, it still makes me wonder how difficult accurate information is to obtain from events that happened just a relatively short time ago, anyway thanks again for all your efforts.
All the best
Dale
improvise, adapt, overcome
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donaldbyers
4/15/2010 3:11:51 PM | No Sweat Dale we stand to help each other always. Let us know what gives.....
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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ron_R
4/16/2010 9:21:43 AM | found an Charles F Allen who was the LWG of the B-17 42-97491 "Ronnie R" 100BG 418 BS
shoth down by fighters and accoording the KU report the plane crashed at Telbrake 2 miles east of Vechta
1 KIA 9POW
MARC 3034
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MaryAlice
4/21/2010 7:17:24 AM | I will have to recheck, but I am THINKING that I might have read about a Charles Allen in teh book I am reading Mission 376.
Will thumb back through it to verify....
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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MaryAlice
4/21/2010 7:21:27 AM | Scratch that, sorry. It was a Charles F. Anderson I read about. He was a pilot with the 351st.
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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donaldbyers
4/21/2010 3:04:53 PM | Derrick,
After you are done with the book how about writting a review of it. Not to post here but I will put it in the PFG for the Group to read.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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MaryAlice
4/22/2010 10:55:40 AM | "donaldbyers":
Derrick,
After you are done with the book how about writting a review of it. Not to post here but I will put it in the PFG for the Group to read.
Don
No problem, will be happy to do so (you know me, I LOVE to type, even if I am not a very good one, LOL!!)
What I can briefly tell you right now is this: WOW! This book is nothing but incredible detailed info about 28 May 1944, with alot/most text taken DIRECTLY from teh actual crew members and thier flight books/diaries/interviews with crew members, and NOT just on our side...but he even interviewed German pilots, was able to locate German archives and use it as well. Basically, it tells us on that day, what this BG and BS did that morning, who was shot down/KIA, MIA, POW, here is an example, taken from page 72 (I am on page 122 now), a recount from Mr. Dan Knight: (PLEASE EXCUSE MY TYPING BELOW)
....however, the bombing had put them somewhat behind the other 2 groups of teh wing, and again the German fighters hit. One of the pilots still in formation, 1/Lt Dan C. Knight, flying B-17G 42-31983 Mary Alice, recalled it this way:
I must say that of my 30 missions, Dessau was teh one that gies me nightmares. When we turned on our Inital Point toward Dessau we noticed way off in the distance many spec in the sky that none of uys gave too mcy thought to as there were many instances when other bombers would be headed for other targets. Little did we realize that what we had seen would turn out to be between 200 and 300 german fighters. AS we passed over the targes the 1st time, our Group lead bombarider had a malfunction in the bomb sight and our bombs did not get away. Anyway, our Group Commander called out Wing Commaneder to advisethat out bombs did not go away. He informed our Group Commander to do a 360, go back over target, get our bombs away and that the other two Groups would stooge around and wait for us, so that we could go back to England together.
"This is when everything started to happen. As we came off the target, after getting bombs away, all hell broke loose. AS I mentioned, those specs we had seen in teh distance turned out to be fighters of all types, Me 109's, Fw 190's and even an assormtent of twin engines. They were all over us like a swarm of bee's. They would come at us fro all directions-above, below, both sides. They were everywhere. We saw some collide with each other, as they couldnt get out of each others way. There simply was not enough sky to avoid eac hother. I don't know when we realized it, but at some point, we became aware that the 457th and 351st BG had not only not waited for us, but were nowhere in sight. We were 18 bombers against the whole Luftwaffe it looked like. There was no way that I could imagine that any of us could survive with odds stacked against us like that. I'll never forget my thoughts about dying. I was sure it was inevitable, but you keep on holding that tight formation that you know you have to do, but I kept wondering how it was going to feel to be killed. It had to happen. It was jsut a question of "when". This is the part I'll never forget-I kept thinking to myself that 'Im still thinking, I'm still thinking, I'm still thinking, if I can still think, it hasn't happened yet'. It was a strange feeling. After a while you begin to think that maybe, jsu tmaybe it isn't going to happen to you, even though planes are going down all aorund you. I think that they estimated later that this went on for about 40 minutes. It seemed like an eternity. At one point our Group commander called the High Squandron leader to 'tuck it in', don't be hanging way out there away from teh group. He radioed back as to how could he, with his formation behind him. Then he was informed that there were no more planes behind him,all five had gone down. That was teh 613th Sqadron. My ship was, among other, hit by a 20mm shell, whcih had gone throuhg the right horizontal stabilizer, through the fuselage, up against one of the ammunition boxes in the tail and had fallen on teh floor behind Charlie Paceley, my tail gunner, without exploding. We radioed in, when we arrived back over Deenethorpe late that afternoon, and the armament people came and defused it, and Charlie kept it as a souvenir.
"The loss of seven ships out of one Group in one day is a tremendous amount, but it is a miracle that any of us got back. We, teh 615th Squadron, were really lucky, sinc we only lost one ship, the one piloted by Vincent Kaminski. Probaly what helped us the most in my squadron was the tight formation that we always maintained. Bill Seawell, our Squadron Commanding Officer had always trained us to fly with wings overlapping. He used to say that if you don't, you don't beloing in teh 615th Squadron"
Again, sorry about my typing. Also, alter on in taht chapter, it shows a picutre of Mr. Dan Knights diary/log book, and it shows how he noted: "Horrible! Lost 7. Live 20 mm in tail" what day, amd things like that.
Will post up my review later...LOL!!
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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MaryAlice
4/22/2010 11:01:22 AM | Will also say that the above page in that book, is where I lost my composure when I was trying to read that to my Mom and my wife. I coudn't finish it..have to say it, made me cry. Knowing that my grandpa was there, and what was going on up there, to "hear" what was going on inside Mr. Dan KNights thoughts, just how what a hopeless feeling that it must have been.
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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