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swinny
5/1/2008 2:30:22 AM | Hello
I have trouble identifying 3 planes that according to the national archives , should belong to the 401st.
But I can't find them anywhere in the 401st archive !
Section 8
Wildfire
Hi Ho Silver
Andy
_______
 My adoption graves http://www.remember-our-heroes.nl/us_401stBG.htm
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Paul Bellamy
5/1/2008 7:40:53 AM | I'll run through my info this afternoon, but here's the first of the three for starters:
Photo B-65765AC
"Lt. Mcilerath and crew of the 615th Bomb Squadron, 401st Bomb Group in front of a Boeing B-17 "Flying Fortress" at an 8th Air Force base in England, 4 September 1944."
A-2 jacket art matches the partially visible nose-art in the aircraft photo:
Photo A-65461AC
So, not a definite identification of the aircraft, but at least it narrows it down to the Squadron level. Time to go through the assigned aircraft lists when I get to the library.
One down, two to go........
Paul Bellamy
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Paul Bellamy
5/1/2008 8:00:17 AM | I presume this is the photo that's the source of your enquiry.
Photo B-65715AC:
The jacket art shows the Triangle J of the Polebrook-based 351st Bomb Group, one of the 401st's sister groups in the 94th Combat Bomb Wing.
Checking the aircraft lists of the 351st gives us:
Nickname: Wildfire
Serial Number: 42-37845
Code letters: RQ-F
Combat missions: 51
Taken on charge: Nov. 25, 1943
Lost: Jun. 12, 1944
Ditched on return from mission to Cambrai, France. Pilot Lt. V. B. Guthrey - Crew rescued except for Sgt. Norbert E. Berendson (KIA), Sgt. Leo C. Hamilton (KIA).
The last three digits 845 match the jacket art too.
Possibly '845 was visiting on the day the photos were taken, but she doesn't appear to have been officially assigned to the 401st at any time.
Two down, one to go.....
Paul Bellamy
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Paul Bellamy
5/1/2008 8:24:38 AM | Finally, I think I've cracked this one too.
Not having a known aircraft with this name in the Group roster, it's probably the personal jacket art of Delwyn "HiHo" Silver at the end of his tour of operations.
Photo 65706AC
Major (later Lt. Colonel) Silver was on the Group Staff, being at various times Assistant Operations Officer, Group Operations Officer, Deputy Group Commander and Group Air Exec. By the time he finished his 30-mission tour he had led the 401st Bomb Group nine times, led the 94th Combat Bomb Wing seven times and twice flew as Deputy Air Commander of the whole 1st Air Division.
Here's a photo of him (back row, right hand side in the flying helmet) and Capt D.R. Charleville's crew after leading Mission 172 (Merseburg Synthetic Oil Plant) as Group Air Commander on Saturday, 25 November 1944. According to the Mission Diary, the aircraft should be PFF-equipped 42-97947 SC-U of the 612th Bomb Squadron.
Photo C-65425AC:
Hope that's of use,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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donaldbyers
5/1/2008 8:41:59 AM | You are correct on the personal jacket bit paul and if I remember right I think there is a posting on the old forum about this jacket from his son.
Don
> My father was Del "HIHO" Silver and was assigned to Deenethorpe. He was a group leader on occasion and had a jacket not affiliated with a specific crew.
>
> The jacket showed a very sheepish Dopey (from Disney) with the name, Nobody's Baby on it. There were then the standard semi-circle of bombs, one for each mission.
>
> I hate to say this but I went home on leave several years ago to discover that he had thrown the jacket out as he was "never going to wear it again anyway." Needless to say I would have loved to have taken it off his hands.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone from the 401ST would have a picture of the jacket or can steer me in the right direction to get a picture of it so I can recreate it. I'm trying to redo it on a jacket or in stained glass.
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> Brian D. Silver
> MSgt, USAF (RET)
> 18791 Paulsen Drive
> Oregon City OR 97045
> bdjasilver@comcast.net
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Paul Bellamy
5/1/2008 8:54:11 AM | Thanks for the confirmation Don, that helps a lot.
I've e-mailed a copy of the photo to the address shown for Mr Silver in the original enquiry. Hopefully he's not changed e-mail addresses since.
TTFN,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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Paul Bellamy
5/1/2008 11:58:22 AM | After speaking to Mr Silver, it would seem the jacket in the above photo is not the jacket he recalls his father having.
Looking through the Blue Book, I found this picture on the Jacket Art pages which matches the photo he describes a lot better:
Apologies for the poor quality, typically it's the worst photo on the page. I've enlarged it and cleaned it up as best I can.
Andy, have you come across a clearer image of this jacket in the Footnote files?
All the best,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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donaldbyers
5/1/2008 3:32:01 PM | Good Deal Paul,
Maybe he will answer if he has not changed his e-mail and it's been awhile so wonder if he has been able to recreate it or not, hope we will see one way or the other.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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swinny
5/1/2008 4:05:54 PM | Wauw , thats a quick reply.
I am looking for days before I dare to ask you all , but couldn't find anything.
Section 8 belonged to the 615th , I could not find the name on the 401st site ( 401st Bomb Group (H) -- Assigned B-17 Aircraft ), strange !
Wildfire , thats solve, its was not a 401st plane , thanks.
HiHo Silver , great story , I didn't know that, thanks.
No I haven't got a better photo, sorry.
Leaves me one jacket I can't identify , the nat. archives listed it as being a 401st photo, but this would be very strange because the ships on he jacket have a Japanese sun on it ??
Andy
_______
My adoption graves http://www.remember-our-heroes.nl/us_401stBG.htm
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Paul Bellamy
5/1/2008 6:18:15 PM | Hi Andy,
In the Assigned Aircraft list there is a postscript with nicknames which have yet to be identified with an aircraft serial, and that list isn't complete either.
There is a photo of the nose art of Section 8 in the Blue Book which unfortunatley is overlapped by another photo. If the original of the Section 8 photo could be found, the Aircraft Data stencil under the pilot's window which contains the serial number would probably be visible.
Regarding that last Jacket Art photo, that's intrigued me ever since I first read the Blue Book many years ago.
100 mission symbols, 5 Japanese flags (presumably fighter kills), one battleship kill, 4 cruiser kills, six merchant ship kills and two smaller craft...... that's an impresive tally.
There is an entry in the Blue Book about one of the aircrew who'd done a few Pacific tours before arriving at Deenethorpe. I'll have a dig through.
EDIT:
I found the entry in the Blue Book, which seems to match the jacket art;
"Technical Sergeant James W Cannon is a modest fellow. Although only 21 years old, here is his incredible record:
He has flown 68 operational missions in the South Pacific in B-25s, B-26s, B-17s and B-29s, and B-17s in the ETO.
Confirmed credit for the destruction of five Jap Zeros.
He took part on the Battle of the Bismark Sea when his aircraft skip-bombed at 30 feet over the water and sank a Jap heavy cruiser.
He wears the Silver Star, DFC with two Oak Leaf clusters, Air Medal with eight clusters, Purple Heart, Asiatic-South Pacific ribbon with two bronze stars, ETO ribbon with two stars, Presidential Citation Award with two clusters and the American Defense and Good Conduct ribbons."
T. Sgt Cannon, having completed 100 missions (68 in the South Pacific, 32 in the ETO) was congratulated by S/Sgt D M Swope, who had 32 ETO missions at the time.
Looks like we can match the jacket to the man on this occasion. The photo in the Blue Book seems to show T. Sgt Cannon wearing an A-2 with an early 612th Bomb Squadron patch representing Mangler, the Squadron's pet bear mascot.
TTFN,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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donaldbyers
5/1/2008 7:04:08 PM | This may be the person you are refering too Paul,
Durward Fesmire was a master seargant bombardier and flew 92 missions in South Pacific on the "Suzy Q".He received direct commission to first lieutenant on arrival in U.S.So mission on 2/25/44 was his 8th in the ETO. He was in 613th Sqdn. and wa assigned to Bill Riegler crew. He also flew missioins with Tom Cushman. He was the most decorated man in the 401st BG. L.A. Mitchel wrote on old forum.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Paul Bellamy
5/1/2008 7:21:11 PM | Oops,
Looks like we cross-posted Don.
Could you have a look at the quote I spliced in above and let me know your thoughts?
All the best,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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donaldbyers
5/1/2008 7:39:52 PM | I agree Paul. The only thing I couldn't see was the Mangler patch which I know what it looks like. Am also puzzled with the Hi Ho Silver and the Jacket which reflects "unreadable Baby" on the back. Memory is Memory and if he doesn't recognize it I don't know what to say.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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swinny
5/2/2008 8:27:59 AM | Jesus , I wish I knew so much about the 401st as you guys.
I only see some Japanese flags and I think , oeps , wrong picture.
But no.
There is a complete story behind the jacket , thanks.
I only found one new picture of Section 8 , maybe you see more on the picture as I do.
Andy
_________
My adoption graves http://www.remember-our-heroes.nl/us_401stBG.htm
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Paul Bellamy
5/6/2008 12:06:58 PM | Nice photo Andy,
It shows the nose art a lot better.
The caption saying it was a 612th Bomb Squadron crew confused me a little, so I checked the crew roster which lists Lt Stevens as 615th, so the 612 is probably a typing error.
We now have two dates to check the list of allocated aircraft against, 4th September 1944 and 16th May 1945.
I can't see an obvious "no-name" candidate there at the moment, but I'll keep looking.
Annoyingly, the Section 8 nose-art was painted over the aircraft data stencil, so I can't enlarge the photo to find the serial number.
All the best,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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donaldbyers
5/7/2008 8:24:32 AM | "Paul Bellamy":
Nice photo Andy,
It shows the nose art a lot better.
The caption saying it was a 612th Bomb Squadron crew confused me a little, so I checked the crew roster which lists Lt Stevens as 615th, so the 612 is probably a typing error.
We now have two dates to check the list of allocated aircraft against, 4th September 1944 and 16th May 1945.
I can't see an obvious "no-name" candidate there at the moment, but I'll keep looking.
Annoyingly, the Section 8 nose-art was painted over the aircraft data stencil, so I can't enlarge the photo to find the serial number.
All the best,
Paul
Paul@
There is no pilot named Stevens listed as far as I can tell and the one you noted above is Lt. Stephens can you check that out again.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Paul Bellamy
5/7/2008 11:10:17 AM | Sorry Don,
I spelled the name the way it was on the photo caption, which is different to the spelling on the Crew Roster. The crew photos are the same though:
Lt. Lloyd J. Stephens Crew.
TTFN,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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donaldbyers
5/7/2008 1:58:14 PM | Ok Paul I couldn't compare them side by side but you are right I had to go back and forth to look at the crewmembers.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Kerry Elkins
9/30/2014 12:32:29 AM | Section 8 was my uncle Frank Greers B-17. The frame number was 42-107113. I cannot begin to tell how to add a picture here, but my photo has all the ID's for the crew (second picture of the crew posted earlier says in front of Section 8 and this should not be the Section 8 crew, but I am a novice.)
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Kerry Elkins
9/30/2014 12:35:49 AM | Here is the picture of the Section 8 B-17 and my uncle S/sgt Frank M. Greer, Ball Turret Gunner.
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donaldbyers
9/30/2014 10:32:44 PM | Here is a better photo of Nobody's Baby.....
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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