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EDanaII
8/9/2008 9:15:46 AM | George? Art? Are you reading? Are there any other members of the board reading?
(Sorry, Don, but I'm ignoring your request. There is a real problem here, and it needs to be addressed and I'm pulling out the Alexandrian sword. I no longer care if I get "cut.")
I will say it again. This site is a service. It is a service provided by the 401st, for the 401st and for those who are interested in the 401st. And when people are concerned about the state of the site, and the services provided by the site, the proper answer is not "no more questions."
In the two years I've been here, I've seen some very egregious things. Sorry for making waves, but they need to be dealt with not ignored.
I'll start with the spam accounts on this forum. This forum for the first year I was here suffered from that spam, and people even complained about it. Yet, Donald and Jackie had to continue to delete spam accounts for a year. If I recall correctly, they were deleting up to 500 accounts a day. It wasn't until Kele installed the next version of the forum software that the problem was solved. The critical point here being _that it took AT LEAST A YEAR before the problem was ever got solved._ And I'm still not convinced that these changes would ever have happened but for the complaining.
If this isn't the definition of counter-productive, I don't know what is.
Now, let's talk about the innappropriate messages raised by win-win in the now locked thread. It's a simple concern and should be addressed. And yet, instead of taking the time to solve an easily fixable problem, we suddenly find out we are getting a new forum. This prompts win to ask how will important aspects of the older forums will be preserved.
And the answer is "people who spend their time trying to keep this site operational on a no budget no pay concept they are doing what they can."
(Sorry, Donald, you are my friend and I don't mean to offend as I know this answer doesn't actually come from you but...)
DON'T. MAKE. ME. LAUGH.
In order for those people who aren't paid to be short on time they actually have to spend a little time ACTUALLY doing something.
George? Art? If you are reading this and honestly believe that these problems are so overwhelming then you are being sold a bill of goods and here's why:
For example, fixing the inappropriate messages problem that Win asked about should take no more than 30 minutes. The steps are pretty simple and as follows:
1. Download and open the old Forum file (called "forum401.mdb," 5 minutes).
2. Edit the database table named FORUM_MESSAGES contained therein.
3. Delete the offending posts and save it. (20 minutes if you aren't sure what you are doing, 5 minutes if you are).
3. Upload the file back to the server. (5 more minutes).
Are you telling me that "these volunteers" are so busy she... uh, they... can't spare 30 minutes? Then why did "they" ever volunteer for this duty?
Further spam could be prevented by simply locking the old forum and yet these so called people volunteering don't have the five minutes to do that?
I created a Search function for the 401st web site. Many people who have used it have welcomed it and found it useful. And yet, when the new function was uploaded, it appears the server crashed and the Gallery and other aspects of the web-site were lost and it's sat that way for months, only recently being fixed -- and there are still aspects of the site that are still broken from that server crash.
Now, let me tell you how much time it should have taken to fix ALL of the server problems after that crash:
1. Grab latest backup and unzip (assuming it was compressed, 30 minutes)
2. Upload unzipped files to the server (assuming a good connection, 2 hours).
And let me be very clear about one very important thing, these problems should have been fixed soon after the server crashed, not months later. And these volunteers don't have time for this? Once again, I'm forced to ask, why did "they" volunteer? A volunteer with no time is about as useful as a 50 caliber with no bullets or a B-17 with no bombs.
And this is just a short list of the problems with this site. There are so many more. And the people asking questions do so because they want to help make the site better.
But instead of fixing these problems, we are told we are getting a new forum. Where is it? And how are we even certain that these, ummm... "people" who spend their time trying to keep this site operational have any more time to solve the problems that will come with yet another site?
George? Art? Are you still with me? Here's why this situation is SO LAUGHABLE.
Let's do some math. 2000 man hours divided by 1 is still 2000 man hours. 2000 man hours divided by 2 is only 1000 man hours. Divided by 3 and you have 666 man hours...
There are others here who have volunteered to help with this site, thereby decreasing the work load. I was not one of them. Instead, I was asked to help and did so gladly simply for the joy of helping. But instead of decreasing those man hours by accepting the help of others, you are driving them away by telling them "you're not wanted here."
More laughable still, two volunteers had their privileges revoked a few months back under false pretenses. One of them had to beg (practically) to get those privileges back and we are being told that she... err... the others don't have enough time??? I actually would laugh, if this situation weren't so absurd.
Right now, I'm imagining a 401st mission, where the pilot goes through his mission checklist only to discover that the bombs haven't been loaded yet. He goes to the bomb crew and is turned away because "they are too busy." Angrily, he turns to the command staff for help, only to be pushed out the door and labeled a "malcontent."
What's wrong with this picture?
OK. I'm done ranting. Given how our so-called admin reacts to challenges, it's possible I might even get banned for this. Forgive me if I don't care. I have tried to help the 401st solely for the love of my father. Others have tried to help out for the love of the 401st. But instead of being given carrots for their help, it seems they get beaten with sticks.
Small wonder that volunteer list is getting shorter...
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Jackie Sharp Sheflin
8/9/2008 5:57:07 PM | Ed,
First I would like to tell you how much I have appreciated all you and others have done for the 401st site and forum. There is not as much appreciation given as is deserved.
Like you I have been disappointed in the lack of communication when it comes to the site and the forum and it has bothered me for quite some time.
It is my hope that your letter will open the door and start some much needed communication between all concerned. The 401st cannot afford to loose those who keep the site and the forum alive or it will be the demise of a wonderful site that needs to be kept going for all generations both now and those to come.
I have heard many people voice their feelings about the Spam and porn problem as it is very demeaning to the site and all it stands for. Unfortunately most complain privately as they are afraid of saying it out loud. I have no idea why the problem is allowed to continue if the solution is as easy as you described. I know deleting it in the new forum was almost a full time job until the updates were made. My family could not believe the time it took to take care of just Spam and porn for the new forum.
You are also right that the concerns expressed about the forum need to be answered and not ignored. It has seemed many times that we are discouraged for caring about the site and the forum. I find that most unfortunate.
This site is not about any one person and their feelings. This site is dedicated to all those who served in the 401st and also to their families and loved ones and as such everyone here should be working together to improve and enhance it. To do otherwise is just plain wrong.
May the doors open and may everyones questions be answered in a timely fashion as I believe members have a right to know what to expect. After all that is just common courtesy.
Jackie
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EDanaII
8/9/2008 10:30:57 PM | Thank you, Jackie, for your response.
And you do raise an important point that I should address. You are absolutely correct, this isn't about feelings. This is about what is right for the 401st. And an old forum full of spam is not right for the 401st. A system that suffers from sporadic availability is not right either. Nor is a new web site the right thing when there's no guarantee that it won't suffer from the same availability issues as earlier forums.
And all that some of us are asking is that our admin do the right thing and maintain this site as she should.
Being a volunteer is no excuse for poor stewardship. If you do not have the time to volunteer, then you should not be a volunteer.
Nor is being short of time an excuse. If you're short on time, then you should share that time, for the benefit of the 401st.
And she needs to step up to the plate and do the right thing. No more excuses.
Ed.
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Phoenix
8/11/2008 12:27:16 PM | To you all,
How sad this all is, 😢 I hope one day to see you all at Deenethorpe as I severely doubt I shall get across the pond to any reunions and this time I mean it, I tender my resignation from this forum, 😢 good luck everyone.
All the best
"Phoenix"
improvise, adapt, overcome
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EDanaII
8/11/2008 2:55:11 PM | Dale? Could you drop me an email?
My address is @ Cox.net, the user ID is the same as you see on the left.
Ed.
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EDanaII
8/14/2008 10:27:27 AM | All right, since this thread has been moved from the General Posts forum to the Site Suggestions forum, I'll now make some suggestions.
First on my list, in order to solve the availability issues with this forum, since this forum currently resides on a server sitting in someone's home: move it to a professionally maintained service. Such services can be purchased for relatively cheap.
The benefits would be enormous. First, a professionally maintained server would likely not suffer from the availability issues that this forum faces. And, should the server crash, a professional service would likely restore it, eliminating the problems like the missing gallery. This would have the effect of freeing the web admin to dealing with content, rather than fixing a broken site. I consider the ability to email members when no posts are made an important function for this site. A person may pose a question they would like answered and it could take weeks for before someone comes along and answers it. Being able to receive an email weeks later would go a long way to help remind the original poster of their post and where it was located. Using a professional service would eliminate the artificial restriction that prevents this functionality and allow this forum to reach its full potential.
There is, to my knowledge, one single restriction that is keeping the forum from moving to a professional service: a filemakerpro database. This is uncommon technology that is supported by very few professional services. The few who do are very expensive. The filemakerpro database however, really isn't a limitation. It runs an aspect of the web site that is separate from the public face of the 401st site. There was a filemakerpro database on the public site, but I removed that limitation when I wrote the Search function for the public site. As such, it can stay where it is while the public site still be moved to a professional hosting service.
Finally, for any who are worried about the cost of a professional service, I say go here: http://www.amiga.org . Look to the left, to the box that says "Feed the Kitty" and the button that says "Make a Donation." This site keeps itself going by accepting help from the people who actually use it. If necessary, this site could do the same.
One of the concerns for some of us with regards to this new site we are getting is that there is no guarantee that it won't be subject to the same problems the current sites are. Which is why, once again, I think it should be moved to a professional service.
Just some food for thought.
Ed.
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win-win
8/20/2008 12:31:38 PM | To: Art Seder, George Menzel, the Association Board Members and all 401BG Website 'Providers' and 'Users':
1. If you believe, as I, that this 401BG Website/Forum:
- - Is the 'face' of the Association to the World - 24/7;
- - Is probably the best Association 'portal' for attracting future membership growth;
- - Is a 'core' means to perpetuate the heritage of the 401st - and serve Vets and Vets' kin now; and
- - Has a wealth of interested, talented and knowledgeable 'providers' and 'users' willing to volunteer and contribute, on both sides of the 'pond';
2. Then you, as I, must agree this Web-site needs 'fixed' and 'immediately':
- - A 'new system', without fixing the existing problems, is like 'painting over rust';
- - Present and continuing Website 'accessibility' and 'wayfinding' problems are, in particular, dis-services to our Vets. Example:
"Don, As of the last few days I have not been able to get on the new forum. Could you be of any help. The new forum is not for us old men that don't know to much about computers." - 8/8/2008 post by Bob Pyle; 614 BS; A.H. Chapman Crew:
- - I still cannot access the Gallery, one of the finest Web-site assets;
- - Webmaster non-response helps no one. If support is needed for Kele, get it. If 'silence' is policy, change it. Present conditions are discouraging, not attracting supporters.
3. If any question of the 'need' or 'value' of an effective 401BG Web-site/Forum, please consider my own personal experiences as example. The 401BG, Ralph Trout and George Manzel particularly, have been immensly helpful to me, beginning in the Mid-'70s when I began researching my Uncle's and his 613Sq (KIA) '1st.Lt. A.J. Nelson' Crew mates' Service - by phone, letter and library trips. There was no Internet. Since then:
- - The Forum is where I learned Association membership was opened - and I joined;
- - The Forum is where I connected with the Co-Pilot's Nephew, and an interested militaria expert, and since we've connected with kin of 8 of the 10-Crewmen, and collected individual photos of 9;
- - The Forum is where we connected with Polish crash-site explorers who had info and 'bits' relating to the 'Nelson' Crew's 'IN-C' crash-site;
- - The Forum is where I connected (this year) with 'Swinny', a Netherlander, who sent me photos of 'Nelson' Crewman S/Sgt. J.J. McCarthy's gravesite in Belgium;
- - The Forum is where I learned from Radiomen's posts (Clyde Mings, for one) about my Uncle's Sioux Falls, S.D. Radio School training, which led me to a 'Class Book' with his photo (and his buddy's), and thence, via E-mails to an Air National Guard Colonel there who helped identify the locations of my Uncle's photos taken there, right down to where his barracks stood. And thence, via the 384BG Website, found his Radio School 'buddy' was stationed 'just down the road' at Grafton-Underwood.
- - The Forum is where I 'heard' about the two RAF maps of Deenethorpe, and then, via E-mails, purchased and pieced them together; and finally
- - The Forum is where I connected with others (like Don Byers, Joe LaGrasta and Scott McElvain) who I later met at Reunions, who helped me with other 613Sq information;
- - The Forum is where Posts to/from Paul Bellamy not only solved many a Deenethorpe research riddle for me, but his incredible 'photos then and now' and 'DP buildings ID' and 'Base model' information, is a priceless body of work for all to 'know Deenethorpe', whether able to visit there or not;
- - The Forum is where I, as many others - Vetsand non-Vets alike - reply to questions, helping a growing number of new 'researchers'.
- - The Gallery is where the Co-Pilots Nephew spotted the 'logo' of 'IN-C' on the wall in the background of NARA photo 65572AC - even though years ago I'd made 2-trips to Washington DC to view their still picture collection (at the NASM then NARA), and even bought a print of that Combat Mess photo 65572AC.
4. Whether 'fixing' requires manpower, Web savvy, finances, or a combination, the Association's Web-participants/resources 'can-do'. And as Peter O'Toole's movie line as 'Lawrence'goes, about crossing the desert to 'Acaba': "It only remains to go there." So, ladies and gents, let's go there - now - how can we help. Delay is not serve our Vets (or anyone) well.
Win Bryson
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Jackie Sharp Sheflin
8/20/2008 1:19:27 PM | Win,
All I can say to both you and Ed is ~~~~BRAVO~~~
Jackie
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EDanaII
8/20/2008 10:12:00 PM | Yep. My "cheers!" to Win too for his post. He is absolutely correct, this site serves as a tool and a means for communicating and allowing people to work together for the benefit of the 401st. Regardless of whether the new site will allow this, the old problems need to be fixed or we will end up with the same old mess.
This is just simple common sense.
Ed.
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