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donaldbyers
7/17/2007 8:59:58 AM | Ebay Item Nr. 150142820860
Pretty sure this is a re-print and not an original copy.
Don Byers
Lubbock Texas
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Phoenix
7/18/2007 3:18:01 PM | Don,
I am getting a little confused with this blue book what is the difference between this "Blue Book" and "401st Bomb Group the best damn outfit in the USAAF" book, is there a difference or are they one in the same. I don't want to find myself buying two books that are the same!!
Best wishes
Dale
improvise, adapt, overcome
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Paul Bellamy
7/25/2007 8:36:04 AM | Hi Dale,
Here are the 2 books referred to:
401st Bomb Group - "The Best Damn Outfit in the USAAF"
Edited by Bill Schiller, (Turner Publishing Company, Paducah, KY, 2000) ISBN: 1-56311-684-7
Pictorial Record of the 401st Bomb Group (AKA the Blue Book due to it's cover)
Compiled and edited under the supervision of Gordon R. Closway, 401st Group Public Relations Officer, Newsfoto Publishing Company, 1946.
Reprinted since.
There is a copy in Corby Library in the reference section, or I have a copy if you'd like a look sometime.
Paul Bellamy
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donaldbyers
7/25/2007 10:13:18 AM | Dale,
The Pictorial History of the 401st Bomb Group and the "Blue Book" are one in the same. This was the book that was published in 1946. Then had some additonal reprints in later years. This was the first book of the Bomb Group.
The 401st Bomb Group "The Best Damn Outfit in the USAAF" was published/copyrighted in 2000. This one was the latest effort of the Bomb Group to give information such as the crew lists and other information especially if you didn't have the internet. Plus a number of actual stories and of course pictures.
Hope this answers your question. The one on E-Bay went for $156.50......
Don Byers
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Phoenix
7/25/2007 2:22:42 PM | Hi Gang,
Many thanks to all for clearing up the book issue for me I am now fully informed. I have managed to have a copy of "The Best Damn Outfit etc." tracked down in the UK for me and I just await delivery. Don, I missed out on the E-Bay auction due to time difference(couldn't keep my eyes open anymore) and my pocket was getting just a little stretched, still maybe next time. Hoping to get a peak at Pauls' copy sometime just to see what I'm missing.
All the best
Dale
improvise, adapt, overcome
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dennis brinson
11/7/2007 10:12:58 AM | Could anyone tell me if there are many pictures of the 615th squadron in this or any books available? My uncle flew with the C.S. Bennett crew.
Many Thanks, Dennis
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swinny
2/21/2008 2:26:38 AM | I just found this book on Ebay , I was going to bid on it , but it from america .
The postage costs are very high , 30 dollars , too bad.
But maybe anyone else would be interested ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... TQ:US:1123
Andy
_______
 My adoption graves http://www.remember-our-heroes.nl/us_401stBG.htm
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donaldbyers
2/21/2008 3:59:05 PM | Yeah I found that one the other day also. It is a re-print and cover is not too good. I am looking at it for another reason but if it goes much higher I won't bid on it.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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donaldbyers
2/24/2008 3:17:04 PM | "swinny":
I just found this book on Ebay , I was going to bid on it , but it from america .
The postage costs are very high , 30 dollars , too bad.
But maybe anyone else would be interested ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... TQ:US:1123
Andy
Andy the book went for $102.50. More than what I was willing to pay to do something else with it. So let this one go I can wait.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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swinny
2/24/2008 5:17:21 PM | Yes Don , I saw it .
What an amount.
Isn't there anywhere a scanned in version of the book ?
I am very curios.
Andy
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My adoption graves http://www.remember-our-heroes.nl/us_401stBG.htm
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donaldbyers
2/24/2008 10:10:08 PM | No there is no scanned version of this book. Hum but here thinking what I said I had another use for the book I wonder what that was....... This has been a though of mine.
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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win-win
3/25/2008 4:23:44 PM | Don:
At one time, I think we, among others, were 'brainstorming' ways to print-up new BlueBooks, but:
1) Without having the original page 'mock-ups' (which probably don't exist); and
2) Without having the big 'upfront' investment (that 401BG Ass'n. put-out for past reprints).
One idea was to 'scan' an original BlueBook and have one of those Web 'print your photos in a book' places would print 'Bluebooks' - in small 5-10 or 10-20 books at a time. Concerns were, beyond 'bucks':
1) The new cover would be 'paperback', not like the 'hard', 'upolstered' BlueBook covers presently (but the new paper cover could have a photo of the original cover (to look upolstered);
2) An original BlueBook would be needed 'scans' for best image sharpness (not a reprint); and
3) That original BlueBook would probably have to be be 'disassembled' in order to 'scan' it (and may not be able to be re-assembled).
Another idea, which is, I think, what you're 'hmmm'-ing about, is to 'Scan', produce and post the BlueBook as a downloadable '.pdf'. file on the 401BG Website. (The '.pdf' could include, in color, the front/back covers and Squadron Patch page).
Ring any bells? 'hmmm...', indeed.
Win Bryson
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donaldbyers
3/26/2008 2:03:22 PM | Yes my bell was rung (ha), I would not however be in favor of a downloadable "PDF" file rather "Income for the Group". I also would not be willing to tear my original & copy of the Blue Book apart to get this done either. Maybe I just need to talk to someone here in town about scanning process.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Phoenix
3/26/2008 3:42:28 PM | Hey guys, wow, stop, I can see my very valuable "Blue Book" becoming worthless overnight if it's contents are on the web!!!!! 😉
improvise, adapt, overcome
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win-win
3/27/2008 2:34:22 PM | Whoa Nellie! Hold the Phone! Time-out....please.
Phoenix: Your point about BlueBook 'value' loss (if the BlueBook is posted as a downloadable '.pdf') is well taken, but here is a current example that shows 'value' - collectibility and informational - in fact will probably increase:
- - Website (www.aafcollection.info>South Dakota>Sioux Falls) posts several WWII Radio School Classbooks as (free) downloadable '.pdf's'.
- - These Classbooks are about as scarce as BlueBooks ('thinner' and paperback, but unique to each Class (with graduates' photos/names section);
- - The occasional Classbook for sale on the Web currently goes for as much now or more than pre-'.pdf's';
- - And for me personally, the Website's '.pdf's' provided a 'pathway' (instead of a 'barrier') for me to: learn about the school; learn about the Classbooks; and then search for (and find, purchase) a classbook for my Uncle's Class - with his photo. It also showed a buddy (photo & name) who he later wrote about (during their Combat Crew Training School, Rapid City, S.D.), enabling us to identify the buddy in unmarked photos we have (from Rapid City training). The 'value' - for the information, as well as the cost of the 'collectable' Classbook copy - was...priceless.
My main point is that the ('upolstered cover' original and re-prints to-date of the) BlueBook 'collectable' value won't tank, but more likely continue to increase over time. And the more accessible theinformation in the BlueBook's becomes, the more 'markets' it will generate: more 'collectors' will know what to look for); more researchers and 401BG Vet kin will learn what's in it , and more interest in the 401BG Association imembership and participation is likely. Just look over Forum - old and new - there's a 'zillion' BlueBook inquiries. And so far, only those with copies - or access to a copy - can know what's in it. And it's no longer available through any 'inter-library-loan anymore, as far as I know.
My main concern about a '.pdf' BlueBook is its file size - it may be humungous and prove itself unfeasible, but I don't know - I don't do. But regardless what form subsequent BlueBooks take, the original and reprints to-date, will forever remain scarce as hens teeth, prime in collectable 'value'. But subsequent BlueBooks' 'value' informationally, will multiply, in-turn, increaseing collectable 'value' for those few (original and reprints to-date) BlueBooks remaining.
And Don, you're right - before any BlueBook 'disassembly', scanning and bookbinding options need to be investigated.
Your point of income for the 401BG Association (for BlueBooks - '.pdf'; printed book; CD or other form - is also right on-mark.
What time is it? If you look at your Rolex, you're a collector. If you look at your 'knock-off' or a Timex, you're not. But the 'information' from both is the same.
OK, next on the soap box?
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Phoenix
3/28/2008 5:06:38 AM | Win,
British "tongue in cheek" humour obviously fell wide of the mark on that one. However I was very interested to read your points on the value of the "Blue Book" I paid a good sum for mine hear in the UK but only after I had seen a reference copy in Corby library so I sympathise with your views. I have also put it in my will that my 401st book collection is to be diposed of correctly and realise its true value.
So no more British humour from me on this as I don't fancy another lynching 😉
All the best
Dale
improvise, adapt, overcome
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win-win
3/28/2008 11:02:35 AM | Phoenix:
No lynching intended, and apologies for any and all such inferences. Between your 'tounge-in-cheek' and my 'foot-in-mouth', we make quite team.
Your BlueBook search parallel's mine. I started in the 'olden days' (pre-Internet), and after unsuccessful book store crawling, I used the San Fancisco Public Library 'Inter-Library-Loan' program, for a 'loaner' BlueBook from the U.S. Air Force Academy. (I don't think the USAFA loans BlueBooks any more) . Then more years searching until I 'stowed away' at the 401BG Reunion in Portland, Oregon, and by chance bought a reprint from a Vet sitting at the restaurant counter next to me - he'd just found his 'original'.
I treasure my reprint, too - informationally and collectability.
To me, the challenge for both collectors and researchers remains:
a. With fewer and fewer 'original' and 'reprint' BlueBooks - forever, (and prices climbing for those available);
b. How does the information that's in the BlueBook, and 'what it is', become available to the more and more 401BG and other 'seekers' in this Internet age?.
More ideas? The '.pdf's' and 'softback' BlueBooks were 2-ideas, but there's always room for more.
The best to you, also.
Win
PS: As a 'Corby-ite' is there any eensy-weensie truth to the vague rumor that when the 401BG left Deenethorpe, photos and stuff went to the land Owner (Corby Steel?) to make way for RAF Base take-over? For me, this is a really, really juicy rumor.
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Phoenix
3/29/2008 11:25:17 AM | Win,
Firstly I'm the wrong man to ask about the involvement of British Steel or Stewart and Lloyds as it was when the 401st vacated Deenethorpe Graham,Paul or Ray will have more idea than me. My interest is relatively new, only started properly since I've had more time on my hands. As I grew up the 401st was all schoolboy chatter, mainly exagerated stories of the big village crash, amazing when the real facts come out how schoolboys can get carried away. Also stories from my mum and aunties of dashing American airmen inhabiting the area(Grandpa didn't approve) who have been held responsible for my Christian name, not a common name this side of the pond. 😉
As for the Blue Book it is of course invaluable and one incident that caused me concern last year was finding a copy in the 306th museum at Thurliegh and I'm sure the true value of the item was not appriciated I shall keep my eye on that one just in case. Heaven knows how many more copies are stashed away with the owners not realising what they have.
Right I think I'll go and have another thumb through my copy 🙂
All the best
Dale
improvise, adapt, overcome
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Paul Bellamy
6/8/2008 2:11:54 PM | There's another Blue Book on eBay today with a Buy-Now price of under $60.
Item number: 360059153603
US shipping only, and I don't know whether it's an original or reprint, but it may be of interest to someone here without a copy.
All the best,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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swinny
6/8/2008 2:23:43 PM | I want it :twisted:
But I live in the Netherlands, too bad , really too bad
Andy
_______
My adoption graves http://www.remember-our-heroes.nl/us_401stBG.htm
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Paul Bellamy
6/8/2008 2:45:15 PM | Might be worth asking if he'll ship across the Pond.
US Sellers usually do if you ask nicely. 😉
Paul Bellamy
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swinny
6/8/2008 3:34:32 PM | Already done, I am just the new owner of the book 😛 😛
Feels good
_______
My adoption graves http://www.remember-our-heroes.nl/us_401stBG.htm
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donaldbyers
10/2/2008 6:37:52 PM | Another Book on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/Pictorial-Record-401st-Bomb-Group-Blue-Book-1946_W0QQitemZ230297591835QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230297591835&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
Not really worth it buying it from the US.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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