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MaryAlice
3/10/2010 10:39:07 AM | some info that I just got from my Mom. She was reading a form about my Grandpa, and this is what she gave me:
DFC Air Medal 3 clusters
ETO 3 Battle Stars
Good conduct medal
38 301 44 Tech Sgt
2517 AAF Base Unit
As some of you know, I sent off for my Grandpa's military background, but we have not recieved it yet. The above info is from a form my Mom is not to sure about that was in my Grandpa's War Chest he kept..
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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MaryAlice
3/10/2010 10:41:53 AM | Or maybe the info was sent to her by teh VA for burial??? I can't remember now WHERE she said she got that from....
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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Paul Bellamy
3/10/2010 12:59:46 PM | That looks like the info usually seen on Discharge Papers.
Paul Bellamy
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MaryAlice
3/10/2010 1:45:29 PM | "Paul Bellamy":
That looks like the info usually seen on Discharge Papers.
Yeah, maybe so...again, not sure WHERE she got it from. Do you know what it means?
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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Paul Bellamy
3/10/2010 2:35:32 PM | The first section lists awards received:
DFC:
Distinguished Flying Cross. Until the end of 1944 this was awarded to aircrew on completion of their combat tour.
Air Medal with 3 Clusters:
The Air Medal was awarded for every 5-6 combat missions completed depending on date, each Cluster is the equivalent of another award of the Air Medal.
ETO 3 Battle Stars:
This is the European Theater of Operations Medal with three bronze Battle Stars.
The Bronze Stars indicate seperate Campaigns within the Theater. Those listed for the 401BG, with dates of campaign, are:
Air Offensive, Europe; 4 Jul 42 - 5 Jun 44
Normandy; 6 Jun 44 - 24 Jul 44
Northern France; 25 Jul 44 - 14 Sep 44
Rhineland; 15 Sep 44 - 21 Mar 45
Central Europe; 22 Mar 45 - 11 May 45
Ardennes-Alsace; 16 Dec 44 - 25 Jan 45
From your Grandfather's tour dates, he would have been awarded the first three on the list.
Good Conduct Medal:
Awarded "for exemplary conduct, efficiency, and fidelity throughout a specified period of continuous enlisted active Federal military service". In WWII this period was one year of undetected crime.
38 301 44:
I believe this to be a typo.
38301444 is the Army Serial Number allocated to a certain William D. Sartor of Caddo County, Louisiana.
2517 AAF Base Unit:
This will be the last unit your Grandfather was posted to prior to his discharge from service.
AAF Base Units were administrative units, by May 1945 the 2517th were responsible for the Navigation School & Instructor School, Ellington Field, Houston, Texas.
Hope that helps,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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MaryAlice
3/10/2010 2:43:26 PM | "Paul Bellamy":
The first section lists awards received:
DFC:
Distinguished Flying Cross. Until the end of 1944 this was awarded to aircrew on completion of their combat tour.
Air Medal with 3 Clusters:
The Air Medal was awarded for every 5-6 combat missions completed depending on date, each Cluster is the equivalent of another award of the Air Medal.
ETO 3 Battle Stars:
This is the European Theater of Operations Medal with three bronze Battle Stars.
The Bronze Stars indicate seperate Campaigns within the Theater. Those listed for the 401BG, with dates of campaign, are:
Air Offensive, Europe; 4 Jul 42 - 5 Jun 44
Normandy; 6 Jun 44 - 24 Jul 44
Northern France; 25 Jul 44 - 14 Sep 44
Rhineland; 15 Sep 44 - 21 Mar 45
Central Europe; 22 Mar 45 - 11 May 45
Ardennes-Alsace; 16 Dec 44 - 25 Jan 45
From your Grandfather's tour dates, he would have been awarded the first three on the list.
Good Conduct Medal:
Awarded "for exemplary conduct, efficiency, and fidelity throughout a specified period of continuous enlisted active Federal military service". In WWII this period was one year of undetected crime.
38 301 44:
I believe this to be a typo.
38301444 is the Army Serial Number allocated to a certain William D. Sartor of Caddo County, Louisiana.
2517 AAF Base Unit:
This will be the last unit your Grandfather was in. AAF Base Units were administrative units, in this case they were responsible for discharging personel.
Hope that helps,
Paul
THANKS PAUL!!
Also, the "caddo county"...not sure where Caddo County was/is, but I can tell you my Grandpa WAS born in Oil City, Louisiana, and I THINK thatwas his address until he got out of teh War and moved to Texas.
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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MaryAlice
3/10/2010 2:46:46 PM | Oh, and I followed that link, and where it says occupation, it lists gas fitters, and such...my Grandpa WAS a pipe fitter in chemical plant when he got OUT of the War, this I know also..BEFORE the War, not sure, but would stand within reason that this IS probaly him. Also, Grandpa WAS born in 1922, so....
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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Paul Bellamy
3/10/2010 2:51:53 PM | "MaryAlice":
Also, the "caddo county"...not sure where Caddo County was/is, but I can tell you my Grandpa WAS born in Oil City, Louisiana, and I THINK thatwas his address until he got out of teh War and moved to Texas.
Oil City is in Caddo Parish, Louisiana.
If you have no luck obtaining your Grandfather's papers from the official sources, he should have filed a backup copy with the courthouse at Shreveport on his release from service.
All the best,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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MaryAlice
3/10/2010 3:19:20 PM | "Paul Bellamy":
(quote="MaryAlice")Also, the "caddo county"...not sure where Caddo County was/is, but I can tell you my Grandpa WAS born in Oil City, Louisiana, and I THINK thatwas his address until he got out of teh War and moved to Texas.
Oil City is in Caddo Parish, Louisiana.
If you have no luck obtaining your Grandfather's papers from the official sources, he should have filed a backup copy with the courthouse at Shreveport on his release from service.
All the best,
Paul(/quote)
OK, thanks again Paul. When we (wife and I) sent off for HER Dad's military background, took about 3+ weeks to recieve. Was told that it NORMALLY takes longer than that, so thinking that since we sent off for my Grandpa's info @ 1 1/2+ weeks ago, that would think we should be getting his info @ mid to late April, if of course, they are able to produce anything. If not, (and still may anyways) will go through the channels in Lousiana of trying to get info from them.
Again Paul, MANY thanks!
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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MaryAlice
3/10/2010 3:21:32 PM | "Paul Bellamy":
The first section lists awards received:
DFC:
Distinguished Flying Cross. Until the end of 1944 this was awarded to aircrew on completion of their combat tour.
Air Medal with 3 Clusters:
The Air Medal was awarded for every 5-6 combat missions completed depending on date, each Cluster is the equivalent of another award of the Air Medal.
ETO 3 Battle Stars:
This is the European Theater of Operations Medal with three bronze Battle Stars.
The Bronze Stars indicate seperate Campaigns within the Theater. Those listed for the 401BG, with dates of campaign, are:
Air Offensive, Europe; 4 Jul 42 - 5 Jun 44
Normandy; 6 Jun 44 - 24 Jul 44
Northern France; 25 Jul 44 - 14 Sep 44
Rhineland; 15 Sep 44 - 21 Mar 45
Central Europe; 22 Mar 45 - 11 May 45
Ardennes-Alsace; 16 Dec 44 - 25 Jan 45
From your Grandfather's tour dates, he would have been awarded the first three on the list.
Good Conduct Medal:
Awarded "for exemplary conduct, efficiency, and fidelity throughout a specified period of continuous enlisted active Federal military service". In WWII this period was one year of undetected crime.
38 301 44:
I believe this to be a typo.
38301444 is the Army Serial Number allocated to a certain William D. Sartor of Caddo County, Louisiana.
2517 AAF Base Unit:
This will be the last unit your Grandfather was posted to prior to his discharge from service.
AAF Base Units were administrative units, by May 1945 the 2517th were responsible for the Navigation School & Instructor School, Ellington Field, Houston, Texas.
Hope that helps,
Paul
Oh, I also copied that info from above, and forwarded that to my Mom..she says thank you very much for your help.
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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Paul Bellamy
3/11/2010 7:50:49 PM | You're very welcome.
All the best,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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MaryAlice
3/12/2010 4:37:09 PM | "Paul Bellamy":
You're very welcome.
All the best,
Paul
Side note (kind of)..my Mom was heading back to Florida (her and my step Dad drive back and forth to Florida/TX) today, and she came by to see my kids (ages 5 and 2) and to drop off that .50 cal bullet from my Grandpa's war chess. Well, as she was telling me that she got the info, that I copied that you provided and sent to her via email, she started crying it meant so much to her to have that info. By now, you can probaly tell we are kind of emotional people, haha. So,now I have his compass and a bullet from my Grandpa. Once my Mom gets back in town @ April 25th, should hopeuflly be ableto scan those pics I was talkign about earlier, and post them up for everyone to enjoy.
Can't wait for August and Savanah!!!
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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MaryAlice
4/26/2010 7:36:54 AM | UPDATE:
AS some of you guys know, I had sent off for my father in laws military background, and even though we had been told me it would take some time, we got his info back in a REAL timely manner, @ 3 weeks, give or take a day or two.
Now, after that, I helped my Grandma and Mom fill out the same form, so we could get the info for my Grandpa, and we are at @ 5 weeks to date, and nothing as of yet. I figure i will give it a few more weeks or so, then go check with teh proper sources to obtain his background.
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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win-win
4/26/2010 12:00:56 PM | Hi Derrick:
The info about your Grandfather (that you opened this thread with) looks like info contained in the WWII enlisted honorable discharge form (form AGO 53, 55 and others). I don't know what agency may have a record of this document - the NPRC, VA, or Archives or Adjutant General of the state in which he enlisted/discharged - But worth trying to find, particularly if your Mom or Grandmother does not have records your Grandfather's may have had at one time.
You didn't mention what agency (or agencies) you have contacted for information about your Grandfather's Service, but I presume you know a 1970's fire at the National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) St.Louis, destroyed most WWII service records. But, the NPRC does have a lot of information (and access to secondary sources for requested info). Their Website http://www.nprc.org has a mass of info on what and how to ask. One example: As 'direct blood kin', your Mom and Grandmother are eligible for free replacement of lost or stolen awards and medals - And writing them and asking, you (helping your Mom and Grandmother) can also verify what all awards your Grandfather was entitled to. (BTW, The NPRC is part of the National Archives). The NPRC takes a long time to reply - But they do...always. Note: The NPRC has several website 'forms', and frankly, I've found them hard to use, but they reply to written/signed letters, too.
BTW, BTW, have you checked the National WWII Memorial Website to ensure your Grandfather is in their 'Registry'? The 'Registry' is to include all WWII Vets, but the official lists they used are iccomplete - and they say so. If he's not listed, you can add his name for free, and add a photo for $10.00. For some reason, I encourage all 401st Vets/Kin to 'check'.
Good hunting,
Win Bryson
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donaldbyers
4/26/2010 1:18:21 PM | Win,
You have the incorrect URL listed in your reply to Derrick! Takes you to some non profit page in San Antonio!! Maybe this one http://www.archives.gov/veterans/evetrecs/index.html you were refering too?
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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win-win
4/26/2010 3:56:30 PM | Don (& Derrick):
Yep. Youre right. It's www.archives.gov (NPRC). (And even www.nprc.gov doesn't get there).
'You sayin' I need professional help? LOL
Win
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MaryAlice
4/30/2010 7:53:15 AM | Hey guys...yes, have the link Don gave me for my father in law. INfact, we had sent off for father in law navy background, then gopt it back in like 3 weeks, THEN, we sent off fo his coast guard status, and we got that back on Monday (bout 5-6 weeks later) but still nothing for my Grandpa (even though it might be there now since I am not home, as we are in Disney World with family vactioning)
No, did not know about fire, and no, did not know about that registry...when I get back to home computer and back to Tx and Monday, will look into that.
Side note:
Disney is GREAT!! Kids are loving it. I actually forgot we were going!! My wife andMom had made the plans and like on Monday she starts packing up, and I am like, uh, what ae you doing? She is lik, uh, we leave tomorrow for Disney! I was like YIKES!! I drove us straight through, and we will be here until Sunday....
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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