Was the Group's fire cover provided by the 2095th EFF?

And if so, what was the full or proper name of this unit?

This photo seems to show a pair of crash tenders bearing the unit number.


Also, I wonder whether the ex-RAF Fordson tender shown above is the same vehicle seen here, while still in it's RAF markings.


I know one Fordson tender was badly damaged in the Deenethorpe Village explosion, but I have no idea whether it was salvaged/repaired/etc.
I am also informed that each RAF airfield was only allocated one of these tenders, prior to any US vehicle deliveries. Sorry, I can't find the photo of that particular Fordson in the debris at the moment, but I'm sure many of you will know the photo I mean.

All the best,
Paul

Further to the question of whether the same Fordson tender is shown in the above photos, here's a quote from the Mission Report for the 5th Dec 1943, 401BG mission No.3:

"Twenty minutes after the crash, the aircraft, loaded with 6000 pounds of bombs and over 2000 gallons of aviation fuel, exploded with a tremendous roar, taking the 401st fire tender up with it.

The loss of the fire tender should have meant that the Group be diverted to other bases upon returning from the mission, but this also had its problems. The aircraft were still loaded with bombs and the crews on their first or second missions in most cases. After much heartsearching permission was finally given for them to land back at the base without a fire truck standing by. The touch downs were without incident and everyone breathed again."

That seems to imply the tender was "lost".

So, back to the photographs.
Without seeing any dates which may have been applied to the original photos, there seem to be 3 options.

1) The photo showing the Fordson Tender with an RAF roundel is of the original ex-RAF Tender that was at Deenethorpe from it's establishment, and was lost in the explosion. ( I note the Fire Tender Shed in the photo seems to be missing it's end door too)

2) The photo showing the Fordson Tender with an RAF roundel is of the replacement tender, prior to it being repainted as seen in the first photo in this thread.

3) The RAF marked Tender was a temprary "loaner", later replaced by a completely new one delivered direct to the USAAF and marked up as such.

Any ideas which is nearest the truth?

All the best,
Paul

1. A 'clue' may be obtainable through an E-mail inquiry to the National Archives' Still Pictures Branch [contact info somewhere in the http://www.nara.gov Website].
2. Using the photo I.D. number (lower right on each photo in this thread) to the NARA II:
- - Get the official caption for each photo (that may include photo name/date/location info that's helpful); and
- - Find out if there are other photos of this same subject (maybe on the 4-5 photos 'numbered' between the two in this thread) that also may be helpful.
3. The 'answer' probably won't be on these photos/captions, but 'clues' needed to get to the answer may.
Good unting -

Now here's something that's been playing on my mind, alongside the Control Tower windows alteration.

I can remember this building, albeit collapsed, in the '80s, and there was certainly a doorway in both ends. In fact the easiest approach was from the end seen in the above photo.
So the whole end wall must have been rebuilt to insert the doorway that should have been there in the first place, OR there is a set of wooden double doors in the photo and the contrast doesn't show them.

All the best,
Paul

Due to photobucket not always displaying them I guess I'd better upload the photo's again, now with the dates gleaned from the NARA captions that weren't available back in 2007, and a picture of the tender lost in the Deenethorpe Village crash.


Destroyed tender, 5th December 1943:
Chevron off-road tread on front tyres.


65792AC, 28th December 1943:
RAF 10xxxx number on side of bonnet, top of wing mirror bracket level with top of bonnet, road-going tread on front tyres.


65797AC, 29th July 1944:
RAF xxxxxx number on side of bonnet, top of wing mirror bracket level with bottom of windscreen, different road-going tread on front tyres.

I wonder whether we're looking at three entirely different Fordsons here.
Certainly the first two can't be the same one, unless the 450th Sub Depot had one heck of a good panel-beater. :wink:
New information from the US Air Force Historical Research Agency seems to indicate the 2095th Engineer Fire Fighting Platoon was established around the 10th April 1944, presumably at Deenethorpe. This seems quite late, and I wonder whether 04-10-44 is a transcription error somewhere.

The "8 ☆ 2095 EFF" marking is correct for the 2095th Engineer Fire Fighting Platoon at Deenethorpe, although some fire-fighting units within the 8AF marked their vehicles with the full "EFFP 2xxx" initials.
Support units attached to the Army Air Forces had "Aviation" as a suffix, so in the case of the fire cover at AAF Station 141 Bodney would likely have been officially titled 2039th Engineer Fire Fighting Platoon (Aviation), although Engineer Aviation Fire Fighting Platoon may well have been used by some units informally.

The US Army Corps of Engineers assumed the responsibility for fire fighting in the US Army on December 4th 1941, creating the first Army Engineer Fire Fighting Detachment (EFFD) on July 1st 1942.
By the end of August 1943 these were retitled Engineer Fire Fighting Platoons under Table of Organization and Equipment 5-337 "Engineer Service Organization" issued in May 1943, which established the personnel as 1 officer and 28 enlisted men.
The Table of Organization and Equipment 5-500 "Engineer Service Organization" of 31st July 1943 caused one T/4 Mechanic, Automobile to be replaced with an E-2 fire fighter.
An amended TO&E 5-500 was issued 26 July 1944, with minor changes in personnel numbers and vehicle allotment.

All the best,
PB

Oh no, not politics, please, gives us a break :cry:

Edited by user Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:13:09 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Contacted my ex WW2 EFFPA Firefighter,he is a hive of information.
I asked about the Deenthorpe EFFPA this is his reply:
Possability activated at DALE MABRY AAC Base Florida January 1944,(possability was the date) arrived April 1944 RAF Deenthorpe,England.
He is saying the vehicle in the picture of the two crash trucks (WOT1 on the right)the left hand one is a
CLASS 135 4X4 (standard type found on Airfields)The PPE worn was Standard USA pattern Fire Jacket,Rubber thigh Boots with suspenders(his words but means braces) usualy the lining from the standard Military Helmet, this was the official PPE that should be worn but pictures show this is not the case, however in the ETO they were made to wear has above but ammo pouches, gas mask, Tin Helmet,Rifle/bayonet, standard First aid kit, basically with the exception of the fire jacket and the rubber boots standard GI Combat Uniform.He also says that when it was safe from Luftwaffe Air Attacks on Air Bases after D-Day the Fire Trucks were painted Red in many cases, but EFFP'S Operating in the ETO were still painted Olive Drab.

Many thanks for the additional info.

Did you get the copies of the photos from the 2095EFF at work thread I sent last September OK?
If not, feel free to pull them from that thread.

All the best,
Paul

There were African-American Engineer Fire Fighting Platoons serving in the UK during the war, but no Engineer Aviation Fire Fighting Platoons. The Engineer Fire Fighting Platoons served at camps and depots. The Army Air Force was reluctant to accept black solders in great numbers within their ranks. Engineer Fire Fighting Platoons 1220th thru 1250th as well as others were all staffed by African-American firefighters under the command of a white officer.

Ted

I've tried to clean up some of the photos of the crash crews from the Blue Book, from the vehicles in the images they will likely be 78th Station Complement Squadron personnel.

Rest room, which appears to be the front office on the ground floor of the Control Tower:


Suiting up:


These photos seem to have been taken at the same time as 65792AC upthread, 28th December 1943.
Fordson tender with Austin K2A ambulance, the Control Tower roof is upper left, the NFE Store on the right:


Crash crew, NFE Store visible in background.
I'm not sure which vehicle the wheelarch belongs to, but at the moment I'm going with the K2A:


K2A ambulance driver gets a light from a colleague:


All the best,
Paul