Old Forum

{s:TopicNav|Shade Ruff/Shade Ruff II - 614th BS, 401st BG (H)|ForumOld.T0002|ForumOld.T1129|ForumOld.T1163|ForumOld.MainPage|ForumOld.T1175|ForumOld.T1197|ForumOld.T3755} 
{| class='ForumTopics' 
! Posted By !! Comments 
|- 
| '''COL Bruce E. Empric''' <br/>11/20/2003 6:18:34 AM 
|   My late uncle, 2LT Walter P. Empric, was a member of 1LT R.O. Stine's crew in the 614th BS.  He served as the bombardier.  Their principal aircraft was the &quot;Shade Ruff.&quot;  I have a picture of 1LT Stine in his A2 jacket that was taken while at Deenethorpe - the name &quot;Shade Ruff&quot; is clearly visible on the left breast.<br/>   The original &quot;Shade Ruff&quot; was lost on a mission in MAR 44 when used by another 401st crew.  Shortly thereafter, the &quot;Shade Ruff II&quot; was christened and went on to serve with the 401st through the end of the war.<br/>   Unfortunately, the Stine crew was on the &quot;Gloria J.&quot; when it, and three other 614th BS B-17s, were lost on 11 APR 44.  My uncle and the tailgunner, SSG Gilbert Prager, were the only members of the 10-man Stine crew who survived the combat altitude mid-air explosion in the vicinity of Hannover, Germany.  The Group was inbound towards its designated target of Poellitz when the 614th came under withering flak near Hannover.<br/>   I was able to locate Mr. Prager in 1999 and briefly corresponded with him.  He currently lives in the greater New York City area.<br/>   I would be interested in hearing from anyone who may have known my uncle or may have pictures of the &quot;Shade Ruff&quot;, &quot;Shade Ruff II&quot;, the &quot;Gloria J&quot; or of the Stine crew.<br/> <br/> Sincerely,<br/> <br/> Bruce E. Empric<br/> COL, USA    <br/>           <br/>  
|- 
| '''Donald Byers''' <br/>11/20/2003 2:47:21 PM 
| I can check the B-17 nose art directory and the 401st Bit's & Pieces when I get home tonight and let you know.<br/> <br/> Would also be interesed in copy of scannned picture of the A2 jacket to display on my site,  <br/> <br/> www.donald-byers.com<br/> <br/> Thanks Don Byers<br/> <br/>  
|- 
| '''Scott McElvain''' <br/>11/21/2003 10:38:52 AM 
| The following are negative numbers in the National Archives.  There is a previous posting with how to order photos.  Basically, you can get a xerox of the photo to see if you want to get a copy, then you can order photos from companies that can pull negatives and the archives will gie you info on the companies.  The negatives may be crews and the plane, the plane, a-2 jacket nose art, etc.<br/> <br/> Shade Ruff - A65440AC, 65451AC, B65782AC, also Valant's book on Nose Art<br/> <br/> Gloria J. - none known<br/> <br/> Shade Ruff 2 - My resource has the same numbers as Shade Ruff #1, plus 65460AC and B65705AC and the Group &quot;Blue Book&quot; annual.  For the three that are the same - either only &quot;Shade Ruff&quot; was visible or maybe #2 didn't have a 2 on it.  Some planes were just named by the crew and didn't have nose art.  There were also crews with nicknames no matter what plane they flew.<br/>  
|- 
| '''Donald Byers''' <br/>11/21/2003 11:18:13 PM 
| Thanks Scott,<br/> <br/> I got a little under the weather.<br/> <br/> Don<br/>  
|- 
| '''COL Bruce E. Empric''' <br/>11/24/2003 3:37:54 AM 
| Scott,<br/> <br/>   Thank you for the leads.  The curious thing about the &quot;Shade Ruff&quot; A2 image in the Valant book, however, is that it displays 35 missions.  As mentioned earlier, the original &quot;Shade Ruff&quot; went down on the 8 MAR 44 mission to Berlin/Erkner when flown by another crew - the 401st's 33rd mission.  My uncle and the 1LT R.O. Stine &quot;Shade Ruff&quot; crew did not fly that day.<br/>   In my photo of 1LT Stine, the words &quot;Shade Ruff&quot; are visible on the right breast of his A2 (correction from my original posting).  Unfortunately, I don't have a shot of the back of his A2.  In the photo Stine is wearing his leather flying cap.  I have a similar photo of my uncle but he is wearing a B3 flying jacket (fur lined) with parachute harness and officer service (saucer) cap.  Both photos appear to be official unit photos taken of the crew members once they were assigned to Deenethorpe.  In each photo the U.S. star and and bar may be seen in the background.  I have seen this background on other period 401st crew photos taken at Deenthorpe.  They were likely used for general identification and/or PAO purposes.     <br/>   Since my uncle had 17 combat missions with his shoot down, I can only assume that the &quot;Shade Ruff&quot; A2 image in the Valant book is of a crew member who flew on &quot;Shade Ruff II.&quot;   &quot;Shade Ruff II&quot; was with the 401st through war's end and by then had flown well over 100 combat missions.<br/> <br/> Regards,<br/> <br/> COL Empric  <br/>  
|- 
| '''Scott McElvain''' <br/>11/24/2003 6:56:43 PM 
| Which is probably why there are a few negative numbers that are the same for both.  Shade Ruff #2 may not have had the #2 on it........<br/>  
|- 
| '''Garrett Filemyr''' <br/>11/24/2003 11:08:14 PM 
| Bruce,<br/> <br/> On occasion, I take a look at the forum and saw the entry on Shade Ruff. My father (1stLT Garrett A. Filemyr) drove this aircraft in 1944, and put it through the ringer on September 11th. After relating the story to Colonel Robert Morgan, he said that even Boeing didn't know they built such good planes. Guess I wouldn't be here today if that wasn't true.<br/> <br/> Among the items in my possession is a photo taken of the Deenethorpe dining hall ceiling that displays the Shade Ruff #1 name, a portrait of a rough looking character and....a Lt Empric on the first crew list. <br/> <br/> Please contact me if you have interest in this picture. <br/> <br/> Garrett<br/>  
|- 
| '''COL Bruce E. Empric''' <br/>11/25/2003 4:28:46 AM 
| Scott,<br/> <br/>   I have the NARA xerox copies for the three photo references you cited for &quot;Shade Ruff.&quot;  Based on the information contained on the copies, all three photos are of &quot;Shade Ruff # 2.&quot;  All are nose shots of the ship.  In at least one of the three copies, the graphic &quot;# 2&quot; is clearly present after the words &quot;Shade Ruff&quot; on the ship's left front side.  So we have photographic confirmation that the ship actually carried the &quot;# 2&quot; designation for at least some period of time.  In the two other xerox copies of the photos the &quot;# 2&quot; is either not visible (given the angle) or has simply faded away owing to the harsh environment/repeated combat missions over Germany.  What's also very interesting about these shots is that a name is painted near each of the crew positions on the aircraft's nose/forward area.  On the chin turret, for example, the words &quot;Betty Baby&quot; appear.  My late aunt's name was Betty!  While it may only be a coincidence, it may also very well be the case that the 1LT Stine crew assumed this ship and painted it up once the original &quot;Shade Ruff&quot; went MIA on 8 MAR 44.<br/>   Based on the info you provided, I will likely request that NARA send me xerox copies of the two  NARA photo reference numbers for &quot;Shade Ruff 2&quot; just to see what they show.  Thanks again.  <br/> <br/> Regards,<br/> <br/> Bruce  <br/>  
|- 
| '''Janette Röhl''' <br/>3/3/2006 3:53:17 AM 
| Dear Colonel Empric:<br/> First, I apologise for using this venue in order to &quot;catch&quot; you! Unfortunately, I have no enlightening information concerning your uncle. I would though,  appreciate a forwarding address concerning your membership in the Golf- und Land-Club Berlin-Wannsee e.V.! Momentarily, we have you at Europastr. 8 in Bonn. <br/> Thank you very much.<br/> With kind regards, Janette<br/> <br/> <br/> <br/>  
|- 
| '''Gelene Gutierrez''' <br/>7/6/2007 9:07:30 PM 
| I have no pictures except for the picture of my grandfather EJ Phillips by himself in his uniform and his aircraft uniform. If you find a picture of my grandfather with his crew, I would be very interested in it.  <br/>         Thanks, Gelene<br/>  
|- 
| '''Seth Prager''' <br/>12/9/2007 10:43:33 AM 
| Dear Col. Empric,<br/> <br/> My apologies for responding 4 years after your message, but I only recently discovered this forum. I am Gilbert Prager's son.  Sadly, he died this past August. <br/> <br/> I do have a photo of the Stine crew, posed in front of a B17 that I take to be the Shade Ruff I or II, although the plane's nose art is not visible. I would be happy to send you a copy.  In addition to that, my brother and I have a number of other items from our father's WW2 experience, including his time as a POW.<br/> <br/> Regards,<br/> Seth Prager<br/>  
|}
Meta Keywords:
Meta Description:
Change Comment:
Modified on 2024/06/23 22:56 by SYSTEM Categorized as Uncategorized