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Paul Bellamy
1/24/2010 6:59:55 PM | While looking up information for Mr Morris regarding "Mary Alice", I read through the relevant pages in the Blue Book regards the Haskett Crew's 5th mission.
These describe the loss of the tail gunner Sgt. Edward L. Page which led to him being poshumously awarded the Silver Star, and the efforts of Lt. Haskett to bring a badly damaged "Mary Alice" back to England.
Cross-checking the relevant crew page and the mission reports this was Mission 109 to Munich, so 42-31983 could now presumably be added as the aircraft flown to those two pages on the website at some point.
All the best,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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Paul Bellamy
1/26/2010 12:23:06 PM | Thanks for updating the listings.
If only all the gaps were as (relatively) easy to fill in. 😉
Another entry relating to Mission 109:
The mission report relates that Lt. Walter J. Otton and crew were flying IY-N 42-97953 when they were shot down and became POWs.
With that information added to the relevant Crew, Mission and Aircraft pages brings the roster for Mission 109 to 16 identified crews and 6 identified aircraft out of the 21 dispatched that day.
All the best,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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donaldbyers
1/26/2010 6:24:37 PM | Sorry Paul I can't see that one. Otton's last mission was 50 and there are too many missions between 50 and 109?
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Paul Bellamy
1/26/2010 7:11:09 PM | I was just quoting what it says on the Mission 109 page:
Mission Summary:
This was the third successive mission to Munich, and again the 8th Air Force launched nearly 1,000 bombers over the target, escorted by 600 fighters.
The 401st provided the Low Box of the 94th Combat Wing. Once again the target was completely covered by clouds, so bombing was once again conducted by PFF (radar). Results could not be observed.
The Group encountered 15 to 20 enemy fighters over Strassborg, and the B-17 flown by Lt. Walter J. Otton and his crew (42-97953) was shot down, and three other aircraft were damaged. In the attack, Sgt. Edward L. Page, tail gunner on Lt. H. E. Haskett's crew, was killed. It was reported that, even though severely wounded, he stuck to his post and brought down an FW-190 before he expired. For his bravery, Sgt. Page was awarded the Silver Star posthumously. Flak over the target was moderate to intense and more accurate than on the previous missions. As a result, eleven 401st aircraft suffered battle damage.
In addition, MACR 7499 for this aircraft with Lt. Otton is dated 13th July 1944, as is Lt. Otton's POW capture date for the crew from NARA's "World War II Prisoners of War Data File, 12/7/1941-11/19/1946".
However, it would appear he wasn't flying with his listed crew, all of whom had already become POWs while flying as another crew. To be more accurate, his entire crew is also listed as being Lt. Mitchell's crew, and was being piloted by Captain Gould on the day they were shot down. (Yes, I was getting cross-eyed by this point too. 😉 )
The MACR lists the following:
Walter James Otton
William Howard Ballenger
Ernest Loyd Bockstanz
Jerome Vincent Harley
Richard Alexander Fingleton
Raymond Eldridge Westberg
Robert Kieth Martin
Ambrose William Hussey
Russell James Martin
Albert L Pico
(Not all of these may be the crew that day, but I can't read the MACR properly right now as Footnote have put them back on the pay-to-view rate. :evil: )
All the best,
Paul
PS:
I was wondering why Frank Linc, Otton's listed copilot, didn't show up in the 401st's POW register.
Searching by his serial number rather than unit I discovered his official POW record has a typo, 253 as the code for an Observation Squadron, as opposed to the correct S35 for a Heavy Bomber Squadron.
A classic example of how simple errors cause people to get lost in the records, and why research is such a joy...... 😉
Paul Bellamy
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donaldbyers
1/26/2010 8:57:37 PM | I will check out the info on my CD's and see what is going on.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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MaryAlice
3/10/2010 11:11:42 AM | "Paul Bellamy":
While looking up information for Mr Morris regarding "Mary Alice", I read through the relevant pages in the Blue Book regards the Haskett Crew's 5th mission.
These describe the loss of the tail gunner Sgt. Edward L. Page which led to him being poshumously awarded the Silver Star, and the efforts of Lt. Haskett to bring a badly damaged "Mary Alice" back to England.
Cross-checking the relevant crew page and the mission reports this was Mission 109 to Munich, so 42-31983 could now presumably be added as the aircraft flown to those two pages on the website at some point.
All the best,
Paul
Paul , when you say, "flown to those two pages on the website at some point" what website are you refering to, and what "pages"? I JUSt came across this thread by chance luck, and soon as I saw Mary Alice, I was all over it.
Also, I have not had teh chance to be at work this week (being self employed DOES have it's advantages) and is why I have not sent you the PM (again, can not send PM's from home computer still for some reason) regarding the CD.
Thanks
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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donaldbyers
3/10/2010 9:41:45 PM | That had already been done adding Mary Alice to mission 109 such a stroke of Luck.
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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MaryAlice
3/12/2010 4:39:45 PM | "donaldbyers":
That had already been done adding Mary Alice to mission 109 such a stroke of Luck.
Don
What website are we talking about?
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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EDanaII
3/12/2010 6:14:17 PM | There are talking about this one, Derrick. Or, more correctly, the are talking about / which this forum is the companion site to. Specifically, they are referring to Mission 109 which can be found in the Missions 101 to 200 link on the History Page.
Hope that helps.
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MaryAlice
3/13/2010 8:29:19 AM | "EDanaII":
There are talking about this one, Derrick. Or, more correctly, the are talking about / which this forum is the companion site to. Specifically, they are referring to Mission 109 which can be found in the Missions 101 to 200 link on the History Page.
Hope that helps.
WHOA WHOA WHOA!!! How did I miss this before? WOW!!!!!! Looks like I am going to be "occupied" for the next few hours reading that. THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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EDanaII
3/13/2010 12:06:25 PM | Glad that helped. Enjoy your reading. 🙂
But you do realize, don't you, that there's a menu structure at the top of this forum that leads you to those places? I'm assuming you haven't explored that any, so I'm just point that out.
Ed.
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MaryAlice
3/13/2010 2:37:19 PM | "EDanaII":
Glad that helped. Enjoy your reading. 🙂
But you do realize, don't you, that there's a menu structure at the top of this forum that leads you to those places? I'm assuming you haven't explored that any, so I'm just point that out.
Ed.
WOW!! that was a GOOD read. I read solid for almost 3 hours, and for obvious reasons, was paying close attention to 615th and missions my Grandpa flew (found out he was on teh 100th mission that day alongside Mr. Dan Knight, on the lovely Mary Alice) and I was HOPING to find out that when he did not fly on teh Mary Alice, what plane DID he fly on, and why, and what crew DID he fly with?. But appears that info is not there to be had (at least there anyways)
I DO have a question...about June 20th, 1944. On my grandpas flight book, he had wrote down it was his 26th mission, but he has that he flew to Fervent, France that day. Now, according to that link you provided, teh 401st did NOT fly to Fervent France. So, was wondering, did my grandpa fly with another BG? And if so, why?
Now, what I DO know is that my grandpa's info IS right, as it came straight from him, and I can only assure everyone that if my grandpa wrote it (and he did) then that IS where they flew to.
I hopped over there to see where agan they said they flew to, and on that day, teh 401st flew 2 missions, one to Hamburg, and one to Hazerrouck.....so, any ideas?????? Did another BG fly to Fervent France on June 20th, 1944?
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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MaryAlice
3/13/2010 2:42:47 PM | "EDanaII":
Glad that helped. Enjoy your reading. 🙂
But you do realize, don't you, that there's a menu structure at the top of this forum that leads you to those places? I'm assuming you haven't explored that any, so I'm just point that out.
Ed.
Yes, I hopped on those links briefly one day, just did not come across that info.....looks like I am gonna be doing MORE searching, hahaha
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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Paul Bellamy
3/13/2010 3:05:28 PM | "MaryAlice":
I DO have a question...about June 20th, 1944. On my grandpas flight book, he had wrote down it was his 26th mission, but he has that he flew to Fervent, France that day. Now, according to that link you provided, teh 401st did NOT fly to Fervent France. So, was wondering, did my grandpa fly with another BG? And if so, why?
Now, what I DO know is that my grandpa's info IS right, as it came straight from him, and I can only assure everyone that if my grandpa wrote it (and he did) then that IS where they flew to.
I hopped over there to see where agan they said they flew to, and on that day, teh 401st flew 2 missions, one to Hamburg, and one to Hazerrouck.....so, any ideas?????? Did another BG fly to Fervent France on June 20th, 1944?
A couple of possibilities present themselves here:
The Hazebrouck mission didn't hit the primary briefed target of a rocket site, but bombed a secondary, a railroad junction.
What I can't say at the moment is whether the primary was a rocket site at Hazebrouck, and the railroad junction at Frevent was the secondary, or the other way around. There is only 30 miles between the two places, mere minutes flying time.
Having said that, there WAS a V-1 rocket launching site at Hazebrouck, and Frevent WAS an identified Railroad Junction target, so I'd suggest that your Grandfather listed the actual, rather than the briefed, target for that mission.
Paul Bellamy
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EDanaII
3/13/2010 3:47:52 PM | "MaryAlice":
Yes, I hopped on those links briefly one day, just did not come across that info.....looks like I am gonna be doing MORE searching, hahaha
There's also a Search function that, if you entered your grandfather's name, would have led you to his crew page and the missions they flew. Just so you know. 🙂
Ed.
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MaryAlice
3/13/2010 4:15:56 PM | "Paul Bellamy":
(quote="MaryAlice")
I DO have a question...about June 20th, 1944. On my grandpas flight book, he had wrote down it was his 26th mission, but he has that he flew to Fervent, France that day. Now, according to that link you provided, teh 401st did NOT fly to Fervent France. So, was wondering, did my grandpa fly with another BG? And if so, why?
Now, what I DO know is that my grandpa's info IS right, as it came straight from him, and I can only assure everyone that if my grandpa wrote it (and he did) then that IS where they flew to.
I hopped over there to see where agan they said they flew to, and on that day, teh 401st flew 2 missions, one to Hamburg, and one to Hazerrouck.....so, any ideas?????? Did another BG fly to Fervent France on June 20th, 1944?
A couple of possibilities present themselves here:
The Hazebrouck mission didn't hit the primary briefed target of a rocket site, but bombed a secondary, a railroad junction.
What I can't say at the moment is whether the primary was a rocket site at Hazebrouck, and the railroad junction at Frevent was the secondary, or the other way around. There is only 30 miles between the two places, mere minutes flying time.
Having said that, there WAS a V-1 rocket launching site at Hazebrouck, and Frevent WAS an identified Railroad Junction target, so I'd suggest that your Grandfather listed the actual, rather than the briefed, target for that mission.(/quote)
More than likely that is what happened then, as my grandpa was one for details, and if that's a possibility, them flying there, then that is what he probaly would have worte, the ACTUAL, instead of where they were SUPPOSED to. OK, thanks.
Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"
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